Who's More Woman?

Honey is unhappy because she doesn't like disturbances in her dungeon...These next few comics are where I REALLY get myself into some trouble!

But seriously, I'd like to reiterate some things from yesterdays discussion in the comments section. Some people would tell me "don't feed the trolls" but I don't believe anyone was trolling, I think they were expressing legitimate concerns and feelings of theirs and I would feel bad for not addressing it.

(The tl;dr version of it all is that I'm surprised anyone thought I was trying to be derogatory or condescending when it wasn't my intention at all. And that if you don't enjoy the comic, just don't read it.)

Right, now for the full version. First, I actually expected there to be a controversy on this webpage much sooner! We're just two months away from the first year. And I KNEW this story-line was going to ruffle some feathers so I was prepared to defend my reasons for including it and the way I've presented it.

And secondly, I'm LEGITIMATELY surprised that folks actually thought I was trying to be hateful and spread hate-speech. I always try to be respectful in the way I address anyone who lends me the curteousy first. Only a few comments degenerated into personal attacks so good on most of you. :)

Here's where I reiterate, for those who conveniently overlooked it. I did not use any terminology in order to inflame or put down anyone. Sincerely. It's not an apology, since I've absolutely nothing to apologize for, it's just making my intentions clear.

Now I could play the "I've got lots of trans friends" card but I never felt that was any sort of defense for name-calling and pure meanness. That said, I do work and interact with people of all genders and all in-betweens and so far no one has taken issue with being called a "tranny" or anything else. Should someone politely ask me not to refer to them as such, I'm happy to oblige. We get trannys, transvestites, transgenders, transmen and transwomen. Most I've met identify as one of the above, dunno if it's the SoCal culture or just the scene or what but it's how it is here. We wear our LGBT shirts and sing about being sweet transvestites from Transexual Transylvania!

I will never make you all happy. Some of you were deeply bothered by this, some of you thought it was no big deal. We're lucky that we all have differences of opinion and that's why we get to spice things up when we disagree.

To wrap this all up, I want to ask you guys to not be afraid to call me on it if you think I'm being out of line on something. Just don't act surprised or indignant if I choose to disgree with you. :) It's your right and my own.
I'm an outspoken lady. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here making this comic.

I'm also PAINFULLY not politically correct. :P Lord, if you all heard the jokes that pass between Sharky and I, you'd up and die. You think this comic is bad? It's kids-rated in comparison. I make fun of men, I make fun of women, I make fun of everything in between. I make fun of babies, I make fun of animals and I make fun of of MYSELF. In case you hadn't noticed that last part, yet. :P

Oh yea! One more thing.
I mean it when I say if you don't like it, dont' read it. Sincerely. I'm not putting this thing out there to offend anyone so if you think I'm an asshole or are disturbed/upset by the subject matter then keep in mind that no one is FORCING you to read this. It's your choice and if the comic doesn't entertain you, don't follow it. It'll make the world a happier place for the both of us. You totally have the right to think I'm a bitch but if you do let's just not hang out. :)

I wanna thank everyone who participated in the discussion no matter what their viewpoint. Thanks for all the kind words from some of you. I really appreciate the support but even more-so I appreciate that you're all out-spoken enough to say whats on your minds, whether or not we agree.
I wanted this whole thing to be more concise but I had alot to address. Moving on!

Blah, I'm still feeling sickish which, as you can imagine, makes me a bit cranky. I'm trying my best not to snap at anyone. It's not as hard when I feel I'm speaking honestly. I'm supposed to go to a party at a dance hall tonight. I don't feel up to drinking OR dancing. D: *sniff*

So, like I've mentioned in the comic, we only hire born and bred women. It's not our choice, since the boss does the hiring. I don't know his reasoning behind it, honestly. It could be personal prejudices or it could be catering to his clientele or it could be both. I don't know personally. It is a bit funny, since we have to keep at least a g-string on at all times so if we were being honest, no one gets to see what junk we're carrying anyway. Some of the girls here say they're glad we don't hire trannies because they're afraid they would steal all of our clients. :P I know there's a huge call in the scene for "lady-boys" but I suppose there are other establishments that cater to that specifically. Trans women and everyone else are still welcome to play with us, to come to the parties, to rent rooms etc, we just don't employ them. The same way we don't employ men. This isn't an equal opportunity employer, it's about what our boss likes to see. I've seen many girls turned away for not being up to snuff aesthetically (in his opinion.) It sucks but it's his business and he's picking out what sells. It's true that no matter what your look there's a guy that's into it but just one guy doesn't put food on the table. :/ Even I don't look traditional but I fought to get hired and I have a firm niche so I do well.

And yes, most of the ladies in drag or the post-ops I run into are WAY more feminine than I. :P Really! I'm more of a "fake" than they are when it comes to traditional feminine ideals. Most of the time I feel like I'm dressing up in a girl costume. I suck at female. But, just like everyone else, I can't help the body I was born into. IT'S NOT MY FAULT! ;)

I was initially going to have Nic turning and breaking the fourth wall and speaking the punchline here out to the audience. Last minute I thought it would make more sense to have her talk to a girl in the room but now I wish I'd done it the original way. :/ Oh well.

Okay. Gonna try to rest until the birthday tonight. Of course, by the time you read this I'll already be there... I'd like to say I'm gonna leave everything at this but suppose I should be busy bracing myself for some more backlash. :P

PS You should all just know now. I also use the word "cunt." Some love it, some hate it, I've always thought it was sexy. :)


Anonymous said...

Thank you, Nic, for not giving in to the hatemongers. In my experience, the only use of "______ privilege" (fill in the blank with whatever word you'd like) is to engage in ad hominem and shut down discussion.

Static Nonsense said...

You honestly feel that your intent makes it so that you do not have to apologize?

Like I said. The problem isn't with one or a few people being offended by your use of the term. The problem is that through the use of the term from a position where you have no claim to the word, you in turn are contributing to the negative usage of the term elsewhere by reinforcing such mentalities through such usage.

You're missing the forest for the trees here. Try to pay attention to the bigger picture.

I'm not even focusing on the comic at this point. Though I will admit, your concern with a punch line over the compassion of others and telling us to simply not read it if we don't like it or can't appreciate the humor strikes me as hipster. Regardless, my main concern is with your lack of concern for the overall effect the English language and use of slurs has through our culture. This could be easily avoided simply by using a different term, one that isn't a slur. Why insist on continuing to use the slur? The overall intent behind its usage does not change the effect the actions have.

I wish I could say I was disappointed, but to be perfectly frank I was expecting this.

Static Nonsense said...

"Anonymous said...

Thank you, Nic, for not giving in to the hatemongers. In my experience, the only use of "______ privilege" (fill in the blank with whatever word you'd like) is to engage in ad hominem and shut down discussion.

If your experience is from the position where you were being called on such privilege and in turn defended yourself or refused to look at the discussion from the other viewpoint, then yes. It will seem that way to you. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Elle said...

Slightly off topic:
One thing I've noticed, is that often the "___ privilege" label is used as a way to shut someone up in a debate. It's a rather hard thing to disprove and it seems to be used as a way to dismiss any opinions that go against your own.
I will say that if the person throwing out the term then went on to explain their position and point of view, so as to dispel the "privilege" it would be be a good use of the term.

Destructochick said...

Hey, people, you aren't going to win a free internet or anything by arguing about the words she uses. Calm down. Words mean different things to everyone.

Anyway, I love the comic. I can't wait to find out what happens next. :D

Roadbike said...
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Roadbike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roadbike said...

As a person who's been called a tranny (in both derogatory, and affectionate terms, and have decided to reject that label myself because of the very real, hurtful impact that identifying with it in a reclaimed sense has upon my trans sisters who've heard it far more often than I have directed against them as hateful language), and has had my 'realness' contested on a number of occasions in a variety of situations, the comic yesterday wasn't something that I found to be the biggest problem in this situation, but the artist/authors responses to criticism. While part of that is that I'm not at all invested in this project, being a first-time reader, and part of it was that I generally just navigate away from shit like this because I really don't feel that it's my role to educate people who are unwilling to engage with how using a situation that's very real and painful for people who have to hear this shit on a (sometimes) daily basis in their own lives as fodder for a 'story arc' and a 'punchline', the thought that what the (presumed) trans woman in this story challenging the woman was at all funny is just in general bad form.

As an artist, I feel like, while what someone creates is their own project, and should be left to their own devices in doing so, I don't feel that being a creator offers impunity to criticism for doing fucked up shit and exploiting painful moments for others as a cheep way to get an uncomfortable laugh. The idea that the other woman storming out after being insulted creates a situation of victimization for the woman who originally slighted her by drawing into attention that what she'd said was fucked up is really problematic and I think reflects the attitude that you, dear artist, have taken in addressing the criticism of your readers as well. Being called on your privilege in a situation (and it is a privilege to think that something like this scenario is just a mildly awkward opening for a laugh rather than a reality that you face on an ongoing basis just for operating in the world) is not a situation that I really feel it's fair to claim is hurtful to you. It's a fairly polite tap on the shoulder compared to what I feel could have been a fair response to the willful ignorance towards your readers and is a chance to engage with how you approach the reality of representing a situation like this. It only stops the dialogue in a situation if you can't wrap your head around what that means and how to process it, and thus, degenerate into 'victimization' and argumentativeness, which I believe you've demonstrated is precisely what you've done.

Before you commented, while I thought your approach was heavy handed, I thought you may have had a chance to engage critically with the scenario in a way that might be the start of working through the issue in representing it (I mean, hell, if you're attempting to represent the reality of a situation, and not just some fluffy fan-fic like reality in which every person is happy and gets along and has a fabulous time, this type of conversation DOES come up, and should have space to be discussed and worked through) but today's comic (and your comments) really make me feel like you've entirely missed the mark and don't have the understanding of your subject matter or audience to interact with the folks that have raised concerns about the way you've approached it (and represented some of them in doing so) to give me much interest in following this further.

Today's comic really cemented that (your comment that you have decided against playing the "trans friends card" and then rattling off a laundry list of trans identities to attempt to establish your position as an expert in this situation IS in fact playing that card aside) when the character seemed to turn this harmful interaction into a slight against her own femininity in a moment of false identification as a victim in the situation.

Hatchi said...

Great Googly Moogly, it's amazing how a web "comic" can upset or inspire so many different peoples into actually getting off their behinds and stating their point of view for others to see. Wish this sort of thing happened when the elections were taking place.

Btw I used quotes around the word comic on purpose, because that's all this really is... A comic, admittidly a great comic, but a comic all the same. If this sort of reaction happened to each comic, either in print or online, there would be either tooo much data being passed round the inet it would crash or the word would run out of paper.

Anonymous said...

"Roadbike said..."

Translation from Teal Deer to English: "Blah, blah, blah, I hate you. Blah, blah, blah, you're privileged and therefore don't deserve to live. Blah, blah, blah, no one can EVAR understand my painz!!1"

Get over yourself. You don't have to read the comic. So don't.

Anonymous said...

"If your experience is from the position where you were being called on such privilege and in turn defended yourself or refused to look at the discussion from the other viewpoint, then yes. It will seem that way to you. I'm sorry you feel that way."

I've been involved in discussions over the internet for well over a decade. I have been hit with the "___ privilege" attack, myself, and--especially in the days of my naive youth--I attempted to engage in discussion, to examine the substance of the attack, and to see if it had merit. My efforts were only rewarded with more vitriol.

I have never even heard of a single instance of someone using the "___ privilege" attack and then engaging in thoughtful responses to the inquiries of their victims.

Can you point me to a single example, anywhere, of an accusation of privilege that was neither an ad hominem attack nor an attempt to shut down discussion? Just one? Because I've never heard of such a thing happening.

Static Nonsense said...

"Can you point me to a single example, anywhere, of an accusation of privilege that was neither an ad hominem attack nor an attempt to shut down discussion? Just one? Because I've never heard of such a thing happening."

Well, I'm not sure if this will qualify for you since it could be seen as being subject to bias, but I thought I was being pretty respectable. Though I also avoided using the specific word of privilege. However, if you feel any of what I said was an ad hominem, kindly point out where and I will do my best to clarify.

Anonymous said...

You seem to have forgotten the words "neither" and "nor."

Anonymous said...

Looking forward to more comics, and think, again, that people of more unique lifestyles get REAL hate and ignorance, and need to stop looking for something to be offended by, especially on the internet. Nic, kudos for bringing it up even tho you knew it would bring them coming. You know them. The ones that until you agree with them they keep posting long winded replies over and over again.


Spookyface said...

I just found this comic recently and now Im 100% up to date //_^
I have really enjoyed it, and so has my gf haha


August said...

Actually, I've personally been called out for being cis privileged, white privileged, TAB privileged, and middle class privileged many, many time. I like to think (with a horrifying exception from the beginning on my radical life) that I have handled them all with grace and dignity. Meaning, I shut the fuck up, I sat down, and I listened to what people *I was oppressing* had to say.

I think you all will feel ashamed of this, much like that other comic writer feels now about her really gross fetishizing trans guy comic, and much like I do when I think about my one (horrifying) exception. Ashamed of your rejection of privilege, ashamed of your inability to listen to people you were oppressing, and ashamed that you didn't simply apologize and fix your fucked up behavior. It's not hard. It's just the swallowing pride thing that gets everyone down. Which is fine, I guess, if you care more about your image than about being a good ally to oppressed people.

Anonymous said...

Guess what? The number of people that I, personally, have oppressed is (hold on...okay...carry the three...) ZERO.

You said it yourself: when you got bitched at for being "privileged," your victimizers got you to shut the fuck up. They shut down discussion.

August said...

You have oppressed many, many people. I can only hope that one of them will crack through that privilege blinded mind of yours and show you how your ignorance is a tool of all sorts of lovely things, possibly like the patriarchy and racism (I'm not going to make an assumption that you specifically hold white or class privilege, but everyone is privileged in some way).

And I very, very clearly did not say I was "bitched at". I was called out. And my "victimizers" (way to completely invalidate real victimization through melodrama) were my friends who explained to me why what I did was fucked up. And I listened. Then I asked questions. They answered questions. I understood. I apologized. Because I'm not a horrible person. Try it sometime. You'll be amazed at what you could learn about other peoples' oppression.

Anonymous said...

If comedy is escape from anything, its an escape from illusions. The comic, using the Voice of Reason, reminds us of our True Reality and in that moment of recognition, we laugh and the reality of the daily grind is shown for what it really is - unreal...a joke.

True comedy turns circle's into spirals. What before seemed a tiresome, frightening or frustrating wall, the comic deftly and fearlessly steps through, proving the absurdity of it all.

The audience is relieved to know they're not alnoe in thinking "this bullshit we see and hear all day makes no sense. surely im not the only one who thinks so? And surely there must be an answer..."

Good comedy helps people know their not alone.
Great comedy provides an answer.

Sydney said...

Thank you, Nic, for continuing to post your comics. Its refreshing to know that not everyone is closed-minded and that there are at least a few people out there who can think for themselves, you being one of them.

I'm going to go back to my non-monogamous, bisexual, BDSM lifestyle now. Just wanted to let you know you're doing wonderfully with this comic, and, as always, I can't wait for the next update :)

Anonymous said...

I think people here are being way overdramatic.

S{top getting so butt hurt! :/ Seriously.

She has said that her boss is the one who wouldn't hire the person, not her personally. So she is simply following the rules.

and two, yeah, girls can be more male like, while some guys can be way more woman then us girls. I'm a big tomboy and yeah, many guys I know both straight and guys are actually more girly than I am.

It's life, get the fuck over it. She isn't trying to fucking hurt anyone.

and NONE of you can say that you don't make fun or poke at someone once in awhile. As a joke and not being serious. Get over it. Dear lord.

Anonymous said...

it strikes me that at one point in the past, people who felt offense could struggle and strive to get over the offense they feel and be happy regardless and there was a certain point where it changed and the offender is now expected to change their ways with those that feel slighted expecting to get their wishes respected.

basically, when I was a kid, you sucked it up, and got over it.

- someone entirely different.

Anonymous said...

"You have oppressed many, many people."

Then name ONE such person, and show that I have oppressed said person.

Put up or shut up.

Jay said...


While I can see the issue some people have with your use of the term 'tranny' that's not what would trouble me most about these strips. What makes a woman a woman or man a man? I just don't think it's what is between their legs. Also I think that marking trans women with the stigma of being 'never real' is something that society really needs to get over. Getting 'the op' or not getting it doesn't make one more of a woman. Being feminine looking enough to pass as a woman without anyone knowing you're trans or not does not make you more or less a woman. By buying into these concepts and letting them perpetuate you give them weight. No matter how unfeminine you ever act no one will be able to accuse you of not being a 'real woman'. That's your privelage. I guess I'd ask you to simply think on the idea of someone being able to erase your identity (as a woman) in a few paragraphs. An identity you would have had to fight for your entire life for if you were trans.

Still like the comic though and glad you welcome criticism.

Elle said...

So I am unknowingly, and without malice or ill intent, oppressing people right now? At this moment?

That sounds like a way to feel guilty 24/7. I try to be a good person, not lie, be honest, be good to the earth, not hurt people, and not spread hate (aside from Duke, damn final four). Exactly how nice and conscientious does a person have to be to not be considered an asshole by the standards presented above?

It's sounding like I'd need to take half a dozen sociology classes on gender/class theory juts to be a passably good person and not put my foot in my mouth. Frankly, I'd rather be out there helping people or enjoying life in a more active way.

Vera Wylde said...

Two things: firstly nice work on the comic as always. It feels a bit like a place holder but I suspect the next one will cap off this mini-series so it still works.

Secondly: don't let the bastards get you down. Frankly the people finding offense in what you've been doing need to find a sense of humor or get some thicker armor. Political correctness is just a euphamism for bullshit. Hate is all about intention, words only have the power we arbitrarially assign to them. Your words are fine because there is no hate in your intention. As a member of the trans community I see that clearly and don't see why so many others cannot.

Anonymous said...

So, you're saying this is how y'all actually treat women (who you perceive as trans) who come in to apply? Wow, that makes it so much better! /sarcasm

Anonymous said...

i seriously doubt the employer hides in any way that they dont hire people born as men, so people born as men shouldent be surprised that they wont get hired!
im a man, im never going to apply here. do you know why? because men dont get hired here! the end result is that people born as men who see the sign that people born as men shouldent apply simply shouldent apply, its very simple
yes youre a real woman, but you were born a real man. its unfortunate. but those are the rules
would you go to a place that says "no shirt no shoes no service" sit down just inside the door and dip your feet in liquid latex? no. because they werent shoes originally

Anonymous said...

Does Nic even read these comments? Probably not.

Anonymous said...

You people are ri-goddamn-diculous. you know how much bullshit I'm having to scroll through just to get to the next page button? So she posted something that shoved a cock up your ass (unless you happen to like that sorta thing). Get over it. Hell, one of my friends pissed me off by calling me a Nazi. Did I drill his goddamn ear hole for a fucking week over it? no. Fucking hell, you people suck. Go post your fucking essays some other goddamn place. Fuck.

Anonymous said...

"tranny" is an offensive term at the very heart of it all.
For example, fag is most definitely an offensive term, but there are some gay people who call themselves such.
Doesn't mean you should use it all willy-nilly.

Also, the readers "defending" you sound more offended and uneducated than anything.

Anonymous said...

I've read through most of the comments on the last two comics and I have one thing to say. PEOPLE, GET OVER YOURSELVES. IT'S A FUCKING COMIC. AND THIS IS THE INTERNET. GET. OVER. IT.

P.S. - LOVE the comic, stumbled upon it via a banner ad on Jeph Jacques' Questionable Content. LOVE LOVE LOVE your comic <3

Distant Horizon said...

I really wish the internet social justice warriors would just stay in their mutual masturbation caves.

Seriously. Tumblr is a thing.

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